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	<title>Comments on: Travel writing courses: Selling dreams to dreamers?</title>
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	<description>Travelling beyond the gushing hyperbole</description>
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		<title>By: Rosanne</title>
		<link>http://www.grumpytraveller.com/2010/03/08/travel-writing-courses-selling-dreams-to-dreamers/comment-page-1/#comment-2200</link>
		<dc:creator>Rosanne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 09:10:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grumpytraveller.com/?p=538#comment-2200</guid>
		<description>HI David
I live in South Africa and own several accommodation establishments. I have always enjoyed writing and travelling, and the travel industry is closely linked to accommodation. 2 Years ago I did a travel writing course with SA Writer&#039;s College - not a weekend course, but actually a 5-month online course. Not only do they teach you to write good travel pieces, but also to market yourself to publications. With this knowledge, as well as the confidence that the course gave me (tutored by Carrie Hampton, a very successful travel writer) I have managed to get many commissions. In fact, what I now earn from writing is equal to what my other businesses pay me. Yes, you cannot just give up your day job and suddenly start writing, but if you do it this way, by slowly moving from one field to another, there is no reason why you cannot &#039;follow the dream&#039; and change career paths. For me, my experience in the accommodation industry has helped me tremendously, especially when it comes to doing reviews. I agree that the course tutors should not make unrealist promises, about &#039;travelling the world for free while doing what you love&#039;, and often these weekend hobby type course do that. But a more intense course such as the one I did, with more meat so to speak, that also teaches how to pitch an idea, and market yourself, is worth it for someone interested in a travel writing career.
What they cannot teach is that a travel writer needs to be a certain personality - a traveller not a tourist.
Regards
Rosanne</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>HI David<br />
I live in South Africa and own several accommodation establishments. I have always enjoyed writing and travelling, and the travel industry is closely linked to accommodation. 2 Years ago I did a travel writing course with SA Writer&#8217;s College &#8211; not a weekend course, but actually a 5-month online course. Not only do they teach you to write good travel pieces, but also to market yourself to publications. With this knowledge, as well as the confidence that the course gave me (tutored by Carrie Hampton, a very successful travel writer) I have managed to get many commissions. In fact, what I now earn from writing is equal to what my other businesses pay me. Yes, you cannot just give up your day job and suddenly start writing, but if you do it this way, by slowly moving from one field to another, there is no reason why you cannot &#8216;follow the dream&#8217; and change career paths. For me, my experience in the accommodation industry has helped me tremendously, especially when it comes to doing reviews. I agree that the course tutors should not make unrealist promises, about &#8216;travelling the world for free while doing what you love&#8217;, and often these weekend hobby type course do that. But a more intense course such as the one I did, with more meat so to speak, that also teaches how to pitch an idea, and market yourself, is worth it for someone interested in a travel writing career.<br />
What they cannot teach is that a travel writer needs to be a certain personality &#8211; a traveller not a tourist.<br />
Regards<br />
Rosanne</p>
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		<title>By: Victoria Trott</title>
		<link>http://www.grumpytraveller.com/2010/03/08/travel-writing-courses-selling-dreams-to-dreamers/comment-page-1/#comment-2190</link>
		<dc:creator>Victoria Trott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 12:36:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grumpytraveller.com/?p=538#comment-2190</guid>
		<description>Interesting post David and I do agree with you on many points. We all know that a travel writer is a writer who happens to travel. I don&#039;t think there&#039;s anything wrong with doing a travel writing course but I would only recommend Dea&#039;s or Jon Lorie&#039;s currently.

But I think that what concerns most of us travel writers is that the markets for our work are shrinking and editors are getting inundated with pitches from non-professionals which makes it harder for them to take notice of ours, especially if we are trying a new publication. I had a reply from an editor recently (first time for me to pitch to her) who said: &quot;Thank God, a proper journo. I&#039;m inundated with wannabes.&quot;

I represented the guild at the Travellers Tales Festival recently and gave tutorials to members of the public along with other guild members. We gave honest advice to people: don&#039;t give up your day job just yet, the industry is changing, many people find it hard to make a living solely from travel writing etc

What was particularly interesting was that I met people there who were &#039;hobbyist&#039; travel writers but who had been commissioned by publications that I&#039;d never received a reply from. And why? Because they&#039;d met and pitched to the editors on one of Jon Lorie&#039;s courses! So that&#039;s what the rest of us are up against.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting post David and I do agree with you on many points. We all know that a travel writer is a writer who happens to travel. I don&#8217;t think there&#8217;s anything wrong with doing a travel writing course but I would only recommend Dea&#8217;s or Jon Lorie&#8217;s currently.</p>
<p>But I think that what concerns most of us travel writers is that the markets for our work are shrinking and editors are getting inundated with pitches from non-professionals which makes it harder for them to take notice of ours, especially if we are trying a new publication. I had a reply from an editor recently (first time for me to pitch to her) who said: &#8220;Thank God, a proper journo. I&#8217;m inundated with wannabes.&#8221;</p>
<p>I represented the guild at the Travellers Tales Festival recently and gave tutorials to members of the public along with other guild members. We gave honest advice to people: don&#8217;t give up your day job just yet, the industry is changing, many people find it hard to make a living solely from travel writing etc</p>
<p>What was particularly interesting was that I met people there who were &#8216;hobbyist&#8217; travel writers but who had been commissioned by publications that I&#8217;d never received a reply from. And why? Because they&#8217;d met and pitched to the editors on one of Jon Lorie&#8217;s courses! So that&#8217;s what the rest of us are up against.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.grumpytraveller.com/2010/03/08/travel-writing-courses-selling-dreams-to-dreamers/comment-page-1/#comment-2189</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 12:25:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grumpytraveller.com/?p=538#comment-2189</guid>
		<description>Apology accepted Keith :)

And now, as I appear to be losing this argument, it&#039;s possibly time to move on...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apology accepted Keith <img src='http://www.grumpytraveller.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>And now, as I appear to be losing this argument, it&#8217;s possibly time to move on&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Keith Roberts</title>
		<link>http://www.grumpytraveller.com/2010/03/08/travel-writing-courses-selling-dreams-to-dreamers/comment-page-1/#comment-2185</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith Roberts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 15:46:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grumpytraveller.com/?p=538#comment-2185</guid>
		<description>Having had my equivalent of a lie down in a darkened room, a long slow cycle, I do feel I may owe you an apology.  My intent was only to counter the argument you raised - perhaps readers as well as travellers can earn the &#039;grumpy&#039; tag.
However Matthew makes some very valid points.  Indeed he has played an excellent role at the Festival at the RGS for the last couple of years.  I am sure that you could also have a part to play next year if you wished David, or even would enjoy just being in the audience.  There are lots of people keen to learn from the experience of those in the business.
Like you I do enjoy the day job, now structured to get the work/life balance right, allowing me to develop my hobbies and interests further.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having had my equivalent of a lie down in a darkened room, a long slow cycle, I do feel I may owe you an apology.  My intent was only to counter the argument you raised &#8211; perhaps readers as well as travellers can earn the &#8216;grumpy&#8217; tag.<br />
However Matthew makes some very valid points.  Indeed he has played an excellent role at the Festival at the RGS for the last couple of years.  I am sure that you could also have a part to play next year if you wished David, or even would enjoy just being in the audience.  There are lots of people keen to learn from the experience of those in the business.<br />
Like you I do enjoy the day job, now structured to get the work/life balance right, allowing me to develop my hobbies and interests further.</p>
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		<title>By: Keith Roberts</title>
		<link>http://www.grumpytraveller.com/2010/03/08/travel-writing-courses-selling-dreams-to-dreamers/comment-page-1/#comment-2181</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith Roberts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 11:21:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grumpytraveller.com/?p=538#comment-2181</guid>
		<description>Thank you David, not touchy really and no personal jibes intended.  Would you attribute the same content to say a cookery course?  Are the trainers and the delegates selling or buying into dreams of michelin stars, or are they perhaps just trying to improve an existing skill, or simply have a really good time doing something they enjoy with like minded people?
I fully accept that some course out there may not appear to have the right credentials, but surely that is for the prospective delegate to decide in parting with the cash - a little research or knowledge of the business can identify the merits.
I do, usually, enjoy your posts David, but you hit a nerve with this one, prompting a rant.  For the record I would gladly invest my time and cash in another similar experience, and one day you may just see the outcome in print somewhere.  Now back to the day job....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you David, not touchy really and no personal jibes intended.  Would you attribute the same content to say a cookery course?  Are the trainers and the delegates selling or buying into dreams of michelin stars, or are they perhaps just trying to improve an existing skill, or simply have a really good time doing something they enjoy with like minded people?<br />
I fully accept that some course out there may not appear to have the right credentials, but surely that is for the prospective delegate to decide in parting with the cash &#8211; a little research or knowledge of the business can identify the merits.<br />
I do, usually, enjoy your posts David, but you hit a nerve with this one, prompting a rant.  For the record I would gladly invest my time and cash in another similar experience, and one day you may just see the outcome in print somewhere.  Now back to the day job&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Nicolas De Corte</title>
		<link>http://www.grumpytraveller.com/2010/03/08/travel-writing-courses-selling-dreams-to-dreamers/comment-page-1/#comment-2180</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicolas De Corte</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 10:15:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grumpytraveller.com/?p=538#comment-2180</guid>
		<description>I quite agree with Ian about the hobbyists. The after work photography courses are also seldom taught by award winning photographers, but that doesn&#039;t mean one can learn a thing or two.

The thing with travel writing courses however is that they actually tell the students that they&#039;re going to be professionals at the end of the course.

But what annoys me the most is the “bubble” they create by linking beginning writers to each other. The students visit each other’s blogs and comment on the posts, so it looks like everyone in the writing program gained a lot of popularity. 

When it comes to actually selling something, which is often necessary after a while for getting some income, the bubble cracks. It’s like a market with no customers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I quite agree with Ian about the hobbyists. The after work photography courses are also seldom taught by award winning photographers, but that doesn&#8217;t mean one can learn a thing or two.</p>
<p>The thing with travel writing courses however is that they actually tell the students that they&#8217;re going to be professionals at the end of the course.</p>
<p>But what annoys me the most is the “bubble” they create by linking beginning writers to each other. The students visit each other’s blogs and comment on the posts, so it looks like everyone in the writing program gained a lot of popularity. </p>
<p>When it comes to actually selling something, which is often necessary after a while for getting some income, the bubble cracks. It’s like a market with no customers.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Dymond</title>
		<link>http://www.grumpytraveller.com/2010/03/08/travel-writing-courses-selling-dreams-to-dreamers/comment-page-1/#comment-2179</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Dymond</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 09:45:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grumpytraveller.com/?p=538#comment-2179</guid>
		<description>I think there&#039;s a huge difference in a course that teaches the techniques of travel writing and one that teaches the business of travel writing. 

I run travel photography workshops which cover photographic techniques but don&#039;t cover anything about the business of travel photography, but I also run a course on the business of travel photography. I think educating people on how business works is a really great idea. Half of the mess our profession seems to be in can certainly be attributed to a lack of knowledge of going rates, rights and responsibilities in our industry.

Not that it&#039;s the fault of newcomers - how are they to know? But it&#039;s a lot easier to be exploited if you don&#039;t know what industry standards are. I think it&#039;s almost the responsibility of established professionals to help newcomers make their way without harming the profession. I&#039;d much rather compete on the playing field of skill than that of who will sell their work for the cheapest and give away the most rights.

Not everybody who wants to be a travel writer can write well enough to get published, that&#039;s a given. But for those who can I think the more help they get to remain profitable, keep hold of their rights and learn the ins and outs of the trade the better we&#039;ll all be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think there&#8217;s a huge difference in a course that teaches the techniques of travel writing and one that teaches the business of travel writing. </p>
<p>I run travel photography workshops which cover photographic techniques but don&#8217;t cover anything about the business of travel photography, but I also run a course on the business of travel photography. I think educating people on how business works is a really great idea. Half of the mess our profession seems to be in can certainly be attributed to a lack of knowledge of going rates, rights and responsibilities in our industry.</p>
<p>Not that it&#8217;s the fault of newcomers &#8211; how are they to know? But it&#8217;s a lot easier to be exploited if you don&#8217;t know what industry standards are. I think it&#8217;s almost the responsibility of established professionals to help newcomers make their way without harming the profession. I&#8217;d much rather compete on the playing field of skill than that of who will sell their work for the cheapest and give away the most rights.</p>
<p>Not everybody who wants to be a travel writer can write well enough to get published, that&#8217;s a given. But for those who can I think the more help they get to remain profitable, keep hold of their rights and learn the ins and outs of the trade the better we&#8217;ll all be.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.grumpytraveller.com/2010/03/08/travel-writing-courses-selling-dreams-to-dreamers/comment-page-1/#comment-2178</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 09:28:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grumpytraveller.com/?p=538#comment-2178</guid>
		<description>And to clarify - yes, I did run a blog called 1001 Freelance Travel Writer Tips for a while. This was partly a way of collecting my own thoughts, partly as an experiment with blogging and partly to see whether you can ever make money with Google Adsense.

You may note, however, that my first post was brutally honest about the prospects, and that at no point have I ever sold it as a way of making a living.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And to clarify &#8211; yes, I did run a blog called 1001 Freelance Travel Writer Tips for a while. This was partly a way of collecting my own thoughts, partly as an experiment with blogging and partly to see whether you can ever make money with Google Adsense.</p>
<p>You may note, however, that my first post was brutally honest about the prospects, and that at no point have I ever sold it as a way of making a living.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Teller</title>
		<link>http://www.grumpytraveller.com/2010/03/08/travel-writing-courses-selling-dreams-to-dreamers/comment-page-1/#comment-2177</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Teller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 09:27:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grumpytraveller.com/?p=538#comment-2177</guid>
		<description>Though it&#039;s tempting to rubbish these courses and claim that travel writing is not a specific skill and/or that any decent writer/journalist can do it - the facts simply don&#039;t bear that out.

Take a look at one of the papers which now doesn&#039;t commission freelancers anymore (or rarely) - the Times (UK) is a good example. They now often publish travel &#039;writing&#039; by their other correspondents who&#039;ve been on holiday - and, to me, they stick out a mile. Business journalists simply can&#039;t write travel. Neither can sports journos. Nor leader-writers. Nor lobby hacks. It&#039;s not about the writer, or the destination - it&#039;s about the writing.

Some of it is so bad it&#039;s cringeworthy. The Independent&#039;s Saturday magazine recently ran a travel special issue, which mingled stuff from proper travel writers (Simon Calder, Janet Street-Porter) with travel-style dispatches from their regular correspondents. I&#039;m actually saving this section in case I ever get to run one of these travel-writing courses myself - it&#039;s a great showcase to highlight the glaring differences between good and bad. 

The piece by the magazine&#039;s editor, about his family holiday in the Algarve, begins: &quot;So there we were, shades on, hair bleached by the sun, kicking back with a few cold ones in the beachfront bar. swapping gnarly surfer tales with the gnarly surfer dudes, as the waves crashed against the sand below and a vast blood-orange sun began its spectacular slow-dive into the wild Atlantic.&quot; Real classy.

Or a well-known, very prominent columnist on political and social affairs: &quot;I was in Vancouver twice last year. Both times it rained.&quot;

Travel writing CAN be taught. It IS a specific skill set. Same as political journalism, or financial journalism, or arts journalism - there are traps that the unschooled can fall into, even if they happen to be talented writers, and there are techniques and approaches which turn turgid travel writing into good travel writing.

I have never taken any courses in writing. Looking at my stuff from ten years ago, perhaps I should have done.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Though it&#8217;s tempting to rubbish these courses and claim that travel writing is not a specific skill and/or that any decent writer/journalist can do it &#8211; the facts simply don&#8217;t bear that out.</p>
<p>Take a look at one of the papers which now doesn&#8217;t commission freelancers anymore (or rarely) &#8211; the Times (UK) is a good example. They now often publish travel &#8216;writing&#8217; by their other correspondents who&#8217;ve been on holiday &#8211; and, to me, they stick out a mile. Business journalists simply can&#8217;t write travel. Neither can sports journos. Nor leader-writers. Nor lobby hacks. It&#8217;s not about the writer, or the destination &#8211; it&#8217;s about the writing.</p>
<p>Some of it is so bad it&#8217;s cringeworthy. The Independent&#8217;s Saturday magazine recently ran a travel special issue, which mingled stuff from proper travel writers (Simon Calder, Janet Street-Porter) with travel-style dispatches from their regular correspondents. I&#8217;m actually saving this section in case I ever get to run one of these travel-writing courses myself &#8211; it&#8217;s a great showcase to highlight the glaring differences between good and bad. </p>
<p>The piece by the magazine&#8217;s editor, about his family holiday in the Algarve, begins: &#8220;So there we were, shades on, hair bleached by the sun, kicking back with a few cold ones in the beachfront bar. swapping gnarly surfer tales with the gnarly surfer dudes, as the waves crashed against the sand below and a vast blood-orange sun began its spectacular slow-dive into the wild Atlantic.&#8221; Real classy.</p>
<p>Or a well-known, very prominent columnist on political and social affairs: &#8220;I was in Vancouver twice last year. Both times it rained.&#8221;</p>
<p>Travel writing CAN be taught. It IS a specific skill set. Same as political journalism, or financial journalism, or arts journalism &#8211; there are traps that the unschooled can fall into, even if they happen to be talented writers, and there are techniques and approaches which turn turgid travel writing into good travel writing.</p>
<p>I have never taken any courses in writing. Looking at my stuff from ten years ago, perhaps I should have done.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.grumpytraveller.com/2010/03/08/travel-writing-courses-selling-dreams-to-dreamers/comment-page-1/#comment-2176</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 09:12:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grumpytraveller.com/?p=538#comment-2176</guid>
		<description>Sometimes it&#039;s nice to be challenged on your views. I&#039;m glad the three of you have had good experiences with travel writing courses (I&#039;ve had a couple more people contacting me via Twitter as well - one recommending Dea Birkett&#039;s course).

@ian. The hobbyist aspect is one thing I hadn&#039;t considered - and you&#039;re right, a few people trying to improve their writing technique doesn&#039;t hurt anyone. This said, a lot of courses do seem to sell themselves in the &quot;Make your living whilst travelling the world&quot; vein. They&#039;re the ones I have a problem with - and there are many. 

@Touchy Keith. Again, you have some valid points - everyone does have different motivations (although I&#039;d be hard pushed to find the motivation to go on more than one - if it&#039;s that good, why do you need to go to another?). 

For the record, I was &#039;having a go&#039; at what I would regard to be the majority of travel writing course providers, not the attendees. My opinion remains the same, despite recommendations of course providers - no-one needs to go on a travel writing course to learn how to be a good/ successful travel writer. They just need to be able to write.

You also seem to attribute an opinion to me that is the diametric opposite of the one I actually hold. I&#039;ve no objection to hobbyists and people who don&#039;t do travel writing full time - in fact, a lot of very good writing comes from these people. I&#039;m sure many editors agree that some of their best contributors are people who do a little dabbling on the side of their normal job. 

It should be noted, however, that there&#039;s a massive difference between a lawyer who is happy to be a lawyer and turns out the odd travel article for enjoyment, and an unhappy (insert job here) who wants to be a travel writer and can&#039;t get enough time to be able to quit their job and do so.

And I&#039;d far rather see a cull of the writers (both staff and hotels) who are only interested in gushing in return for free five star hotels than the hobbyists who write a cracking piece after they come back from holiday. Seeing newspapers and magazines full of dreadful, sycophantic rubbish is what really angers me - when it&#039;s good, I don&#039;t care who has done it or what they do with the rest of their time.

As for the personal jibes, I see no need to dignify them with a lengthy response. Suffice to say I&#039;ll never pretend to be the greatest thing to ever grace my profession, but I&#039;m proud enough to say that I&#039;m happy with most of my work, and I make a good living from it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sometimes it&#8217;s nice to be challenged on your views. I&#8217;m glad the three of you have had good experiences with travel writing courses (I&#8217;ve had a couple more people contacting me via Twitter as well &#8211; one recommending Dea Birkett&#8217;s course).</p>
<p>@ian. The hobbyist aspect is one thing I hadn&#8217;t considered &#8211; and you&#8217;re right, a few people trying to improve their writing technique doesn&#8217;t hurt anyone. This said, a lot of courses do seem to sell themselves in the &#8220;Make your living whilst travelling the world&#8221; vein. They&#8217;re the ones I have a problem with &#8211; and there are many. </p>
<p>@Touchy Keith. Again, you have some valid points &#8211; everyone does have different motivations (although I&#8217;d be hard pushed to find the motivation to go on more than one &#8211; if it&#8217;s that good, why do you need to go to another?). </p>
<p>For the record, I was &#8216;having a go&#8217; at what I would regard to be the majority of travel writing course providers, not the attendees. My opinion remains the same, despite recommendations of course providers &#8211; no-one needs to go on a travel writing course to learn how to be a good/ successful travel writer. They just need to be able to write.</p>
<p>You also seem to attribute an opinion to me that is the diametric opposite of the one I actually hold. I&#8217;ve no objection to hobbyists and people who don&#8217;t do travel writing full time &#8211; in fact, a lot of very good writing comes from these people. I&#8217;m sure many editors agree that some of their best contributors are people who do a little dabbling on the side of their normal job. </p>
<p>It should be noted, however, that there&#8217;s a massive difference between a lawyer who is happy to be a lawyer and turns out the odd travel article for enjoyment, and an unhappy (insert job here) who wants to be a travel writer and can&#8217;t get enough time to be able to quit their job and do so.</p>
<p>And I&#8217;d far rather see a cull of the writers (both staff and hotels) who are only interested in gushing in return for free five star hotels than the hobbyists who write a cracking piece after they come back from holiday. Seeing newspapers and magazines full of dreadful, sycophantic rubbish is what really angers me &#8211; when it&#8217;s good, I don&#8217;t care who has done it or what they do with the rest of their time.</p>
<p>As for the personal jibes, I see no need to dignify them with a lengthy response. Suffice to say I&#8217;ll never pretend to be the greatest thing to ever grace my profession, but I&#8217;m proud enough to say that I&#8217;m happy with most of my work, and I make a good living from it.</p>
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