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	<title>Comments on: Sponsored posts: Where is the line between journalism and marketing?</title>
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	<description>Travelling beyond the gushing hyperbole</description>
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		<title>By: Stuart</title>
		<link>http://www.grumpytraveller.com/2010/03/22/sponsored-posts-where-is-the-line-between-journalism-and-marketing/comment-page-1/#comment-2247</link>
		<dc:creator>Stuart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Mar 2010 17:09:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grumpytraveller.com/?p=551#comment-2247</guid>
		<description>Suppose in a perfect world everyone (journos/bloggers/writers)  would pay cash for their very reasonably priced RTW tickets;  indeed I remember with a smile when Simon Calder of the Independent used to cycle up to Camden from the Isle of Dogs, slightly out of puff, to pay in cash for his trips, when I worked at Bridge The World. I remember one particularly imaginative CI itinerary to NZ where I believe the fridge exploded on take off cascading ice down the aisle. Happy days.

But the sums don&#039;t seeem to work these days - was shocked last year with how little great writers get paid (including expenses) by the UK broadsheets.

So hopefully everyone benefits - we get great writing - and there are no unethical boundaries crossed - as we&#039;re not mentioned on David&#039;s blog? As you say Gary, similar to a travel gun for hire. Like a travel dog of war with a laptop writing for a corporate site as it were...how romantic.

Agreed it&#039;s a bit of an ethical minefield though, on all sides. Off to lie in a darkened room. Cheers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Suppose in a perfect world everyone (journos/bloggers/writers)  would pay cash for their very reasonably priced RTW tickets;  indeed I remember with a smile when Simon Calder of the Independent used to cycle up to Camden from the Isle of Dogs, slightly out of puff, to pay in cash for his trips, when I worked at Bridge The World. I remember one particularly imaginative CI itinerary to NZ where I believe the fridge exploded on take off cascading ice down the aisle. Happy days.</p>
<p>But the sums don&#8217;t seeem to work these days &#8211; was shocked last year with how little great writers get paid (including expenses) by the UK broadsheets.</p>
<p>So hopefully everyone benefits &#8211; we get great writing &#8211; and there are no unethical boundaries crossed &#8211; as we&#8217;re not mentioned on David&#8217;s blog? As you say Gary, similar to a travel gun for hire. Like a travel dog of war with a laptop writing for a corporate site as it were&#8230;how romantic.</p>
<p>Agreed it&#8217;s a bit of an ethical minefield though, on all sides. Off to lie in a darkened room. Cheers.</p>
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		<title>By: Gary Arndt</title>
		<link>http://www.grumpytraveller.com/2010/03/22/sponsored-posts-where-is-the-line-between-journalism-and-marketing/comment-page-1/#comment-2246</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary Arndt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Mar 2010 16:02:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grumpytraveller.com/?p=551#comment-2246</guid>
		<description>Stuart, there is a difference between a blogger writing for a corporate site, and a corporation writing sponsored posts for a blog. 

It comes down to the distinction between writer and publisher. Too often those roles are confused, especially with freelance writers who have never thought of themselves as publishers before. 

As a publisher, you might write most of the content for your blog or you might not. A multi-author blog might pay people to write for them. They are giving money in exchange for content. When the blog is receiving money for content, they are mixing (and confusing) content and advertising. I think that is dangerous and isn&#039;t looked upon favorably by most people, even if it is fully disclosed. In this case it is the integrity of the publication which is in question. It is as a publisher (grated, a self publisher) that I don&#039;t want paid posts on my blog. 

When a blogger writes for a corporate site, they aren&#039;t in the role of publisher; they are in the role of writer. Receiving money for content is no different than an exchange you&#039;d make with a newspaper or magazine.You are doing work for hire. It is doing a job. Anyone visiting the corporate site should not be shocked to see the corporate line taken in anything which is published. 

I wont go so far as to call this an ethical breech. Things are too fluid and changing right now, and I do think a publisher has the right to accept paid posts if they want. I think it is bad business, but it is within their right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stuart, there is a difference between a blogger writing for a corporate site, and a corporation writing sponsored posts for a blog. </p>
<p>It comes down to the distinction between writer and publisher. Too often those roles are confused, especially with freelance writers who have never thought of themselves as publishers before. </p>
<p>As a publisher, you might write most of the content for your blog or you might not. A multi-author blog might pay people to write for them. They are giving money in exchange for content. When the blog is receiving money for content, they are mixing (and confusing) content and advertising. I think that is dangerous and isn&#8217;t looked upon favorably by most people, even if it is fully disclosed. In this case it is the integrity of the publication which is in question. It is as a publisher (grated, a self publisher) that I don&#8217;t want paid posts on my blog. </p>
<p>When a blogger writes for a corporate site, they aren&#8217;t in the role of publisher; they are in the role of writer. Receiving money for content is no different than an exchange you&#8217;d make with a newspaper or magazine.You are doing work for hire. It is doing a job. Anyone visiting the corporate site should not be shocked to see the corporate line taken in anything which is published. </p>
<p>I wont go so far as to call this an ethical breech. Things are too fluid and changing right now, and I do think a publisher has the right to accept paid posts if they want. I think it is bad business, but it is within their right.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.grumpytraveller.com/2010/03/22/sponsored-posts-where-is-the-line-between-journalism-and-marketing/comment-page-1/#comment-2245</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Mar 2010 12:27:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grumpytraveller.com/?p=551#comment-2245</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the comments guys.

Disclosure alert: I&#039;ll also being doing regular blog posts for Stuart&#039;s Roundtheworldflights.com - and they should start in the next week or so. 

But as Stuart says, this is a rather different proposal. I&#039;ll be writing for their site, rather than writing about them - and for them - on my site.

There&#039;s a massive difference between a commitment to use good content as something to bring in and help potential customer and using any old content for the SEO value.

Gary makes an important point too. A blogger is a publisher - not just a writer. And they need to approach what goes on their blog with a publisher&#039;s mindset.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the comments guys.</p>
<p>Disclosure alert: I&#8217;ll also being doing regular blog posts for Stuart&#8217;s Roundtheworldflights.com &#8211; and they should start in the next week or so. </p>
<p>But as Stuart says, this is a rather different proposal. I&#8217;ll be writing for their site, rather than writing about them &#8211; and for them &#8211; on my site.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s a massive difference between a commitment to use good content as something to bring in and help potential customer and using any old content for the SEO value.</p>
<p>Gary makes an important point too. A blogger is a publisher &#8211; not just a writer. And they need to approach what goes on their blog with a publisher&#8217;s mindset.</p>
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		<title>By: Stuart</title>
		<link>http://www.grumpytraveller.com/2010/03/22/sponsored-posts-where-is-the-line-between-journalism-and-marketing/comment-page-1/#comment-2244</link>
		<dc:creator>Stuart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Mar 2010 10:28:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grumpytraveller.com/?p=551#comment-2244</guid>
		<description>Oh ethics - it&#039;s a tricky one (from all sides). However from a company that has &quot;sponsored&quot; writers, here&#039;s a few observations. What if the company just wants quality writing? Sod the SEO though linkage.

Having chatted to quite a few bloggers, authors and journalists about this very subject what if SEO and linkage from &quot;page rank whores (ouch!)&quot; was taken out the equation? That seems to be the main bone of contention?

Also without being boastful about it, our SEO is a lot higher than the writers who we like, and the linkage benefits just aren&#039;t worth it (in my opinion).

Add to that what if you do give a writer a free hand. And if the writer is honest about who&#039;s sponsoring a trip - what&#039;s the diference between that and a fact box in an old stylee newspaper?

Mark Eveleigh has just returned from an RTW and wrote for us on our site - no linkage to his sites. It was a bit of an experiment but we all seemed to get benefits out of it. Seemed to me mutually beneficial with few drawbacks. The hits were solid and the CPC for us was pretty good (better than google&#039;s cost). The real plus for us is that we got some great writing, photos and video on our site, which I hope will inspire passengers to go round the world - I certainly want to take off again...

A year ago I used to think this was all quite new (web/twitter sponsorship) then it&#039;s dawned on me that it was very similar to the old style magazine/newspaper days when we used to go through the information corporations in the 90&#039;s. The main difference is the middle man is disappearing. But I believe the same ethics and standards, on all sides, still apply.

Worth trying though? 

Banging this drum for a while, but still think the key is quality writing from good writers for intelligent readers. Looking forward to David&#039;s RTW musings. Let&#039;s hope he doesn&#039;t hate his trip. Or I&#039;m f*cked.

Good post etc

Stu</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh ethics &#8211; it&#8217;s a tricky one (from all sides). However from a company that has &#8220;sponsored&#8221; writers, here&#8217;s a few observations. What if the company just wants quality writing? Sod the SEO though linkage.</p>
<p>Having chatted to quite a few bloggers, authors and journalists about this very subject what if SEO and linkage from &#8220;page rank whores (ouch!)&#8221; was taken out the equation? That seems to be the main bone of contention?</p>
<p>Also without being boastful about it, our SEO is a lot higher than the writers who we like, and the linkage benefits just aren&#8217;t worth it (in my opinion).</p>
<p>Add to that what if you do give a writer a free hand. And if the writer is honest about who&#8217;s sponsoring a trip &#8211; what&#8217;s the diference between that and a fact box in an old stylee newspaper?</p>
<p>Mark Eveleigh has just returned from an RTW and wrote for us on our site &#8211; no linkage to his sites. It was a bit of an experiment but we all seemed to get benefits out of it. Seemed to me mutually beneficial with few drawbacks. The hits were solid and the CPC for us was pretty good (better than google&#8217;s cost). The real plus for us is that we got some great writing, photos and video on our site, which I hope will inspire passengers to go round the world &#8211; I certainly want to take off again&#8230;</p>
<p>A year ago I used to think this was all quite new (web/twitter sponsorship) then it&#8217;s dawned on me that it was very similar to the old style magazine/newspaper days when we used to go through the information corporations in the 90&#8242;s. The main difference is the middle man is disappearing. But I believe the same ethics and standards, on all sides, still apply.</p>
<p>Worth trying though? </p>
<p>Banging this drum for a while, but still think the key is quality writing from good writers for intelligent readers. Looking forward to David&#8217;s RTW musings. Let&#8217;s hope he doesn&#8217;t hate his trip. Or I&#8217;m f*cked.</p>
<p>Good post etc</p>
<p>Stu</p>
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		<title>By: Kyle</title>
		<link>http://www.grumpytraveller.com/2010/03/22/sponsored-posts-where-is-the-line-between-journalism-and-marketing/comment-page-1/#comment-2243</link>
		<dc:creator>Kyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Mar 2010 10:07:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grumpytraveller.com/?p=551#comment-2243</guid>
		<description>No name-and-shame hatchet job?  Darn.  I&#039;d love to read that one...

I&#039;m surprised that anyone would actually take $20-$30 to do this.  It seems like an awful low price for one&#039;s integrity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No name-and-shame hatchet job?  Darn.  I&#8217;d love to read that one&#8230;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m surprised that anyone would actually take $20-$30 to do this.  It seems like an awful low price for one&#8217;s integrity.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy Jarosz</title>
		<link>http://www.grumpytraveller.com/2010/03/22/sponsored-posts-where-is-the-line-between-journalism-and-marketing/comment-page-1/#comment-2242</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy Jarosz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Mar 2010 10:03:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grumpytraveller.com/?p=551#comment-2242</guid>
		<description>Had the same proposal David, judging from the soundbites you&#039;ve mentioned. 
Agree with Gary; I don&#039;t see it as an issue of ethics, necessary disclosures permitting. I looked at the sample posts and decided immediately that it just doesn&#039;t fit in with what I want my blog to be about.  
There are so many bloggers out there trying to find ways to monetise their efforts that someone, somewhere is bound to take up the offer; good luck to them. Like you, I&#039;ll be watching with interest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Had the same proposal David, judging from the soundbites you&#8217;ve mentioned.<br />
Agree with Gary; I don&#8217;t see it as an issue of ethics, necessary disclosures permitting. I looked at the sample posts and decided immediately that it just doesn&#8217;t fit in with what I want my blog to be about.<br />
There are so many bloggers out there trying to find ways to monetise their efforts that someone, somewhere is bound to take up the offer; good luck to them. Like you, I&#8217;ll be watching with interest.</p>
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		<title>By: Sam</title>
		<link>http://www.grumpytraveller.com/2010/03/22/sponsored-posts-where-is-the-line-between-journalism-and-marketing/comment-page-1/#comment-2241</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Mar 2010 10:00:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grumpytraveller.com/?p=551#comment-2241</guid>
		<description>Maybe the real reason that you felt so affronted is that you wouldn&#039;t have the freedom to write about products and services in the way that you want to. You would just be trying to write about them in a way that could sell them.

However, as journalists and bloggers we are all trying to sell something, but it is usually something we are passionate about. If we get freebies as well then who are we to complain if we were going to write about them anyway?

The company which approached you has obviously not done any sort of research. A marketing blog should surely be written by their marketing/PR person/company and if they don&#039;t have one, they should invest in one as selling something is their job.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe the real reason that you felt so affronted is that you wouldn&#8217;t have the freedom to write about products and services in the way that you want to. You would just be trying to write about them in a way that could sell them.</p>
<p>However, as journalists and bloggers we are all trying to sell something, but it is usually something we are passionate about. If we get freebies as well then who are we to complain if we were going to write about them anyway?</p>
<p>The company which approached you has obviously not done any sort of research. A marketing blog should surely be written by their marketing/PR person/company and if they don&#8217;t have one, they should invest in one as selling something is their job.</p>
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		<title>By: Gary Arndt</title>
		<link>http://www.grumpytraveller.com/2010/03/22/sponsored-posts-where-is-the-line-between-journalism-and-marketing/comment-page-1/#comment-2240</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary Arndt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Mar 2010 08:20:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grumpytraveller.com/?p=551#comment-2240</guid>
		<description>I get these requests all the time. I refuse for the obvious reasons you mention. I also do not accept payment for links. 

If a blogger wants to post a sponsored post, they are free to do so, but I think they are shooting themselves in the foot. They are trading off long term credibility for some short term cash. I don&#039;t think it is a matter of ethics as just poor business strategy. A blogger isn&#039;t just a writer, they are also a publisher. They are damaging the credibility of their publication by mixing advertising and content. 

Moreover, the REAL reason why people even want to do these paid posts is for SEO. They can care less about your audience or the traffic it generates. Once you go down the path of taking money for this you are really nothing much more than a page rank whore, selling your links until Google wises up and slaps you down for selling links (which is exactly what would eventually happen if you did this).

I think there is a huge difference between having someone else write content for your site, and a blogger receiving a free sample and writing about it, not the least of which is the fact that you could write a bad review.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I get these requests all the time. I refuse for the obvious reasons you mention. I also do not accept payment for links. </p>
<p>If a blogger wants to post a sponsored post, they are free to do so, but I think they are shooting themselves in the foot. They are trading off long term credibility for some short term cash. I don&#8217;t think it is a matter of ethics as just poor business strategy. A blogger isn&#8217;t just a writer, they are also a publisher. They are damaging the credibility of their publication by mixing advertising and content. </p>
<p>Moreover, the REAL reason why people even want to do these paid posts is for SEO. They can care less about your audience or the traffic it generates. Once you go down the path of taking money for this you are really nothing much more than a page rank whore, selling your links until Google wises up and slaps you down for selling links (which is exactly what would eventually happen if you did this).</p>
<p>I think there is a huge difference between having someone else write content for your site, and a blogger receiving a free sample and writing about it, not the least of which is the fact that you could write a bad review.</p>
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		<title>By: The Longest Way Home</title>
		<link>http://www.grumpytraveller.com/2010/03/22/sponsored-posts-where-is-the-line-between-journalism-and-marketing/comment-page-1/#comment-2239</link>
		<dc:creator>The Longest Way Home</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Mar 2010 08:12:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grumpytraveller.com/?p=551#comment-2239</guid>
		<description>I agree with your standing on this. 

However, in this day and age of skim over reading e.t.c., I wonder how many people will actually pick up on &quot;this post is sponsored&quot;. And if they do, will it click with them that it might just be biased. Or will they think their favorite blogger travel blogger deserves the quick $. 

I&#039;ve been approached to write sponsored posts for companies and products related to the travel industry. I&#039;ve turned them down in polite reply by saying I could not write a sponsored post without a) using the product service, and b) being able to write about it  without any conditions (aka bias). 

The latter usually stops any replies. That makes me happy. What makes me unhappy is that I&#039;ve seen some of the sponsored posts out there. And, although I do feel for the $ stuck writer / blog, they do loose credibility in my eyes if they do not disclose this.

Moreover, if the style of writing is that of a copywriter from said company, or it&#039;s blatant that they&#039;ve never used the service / product. 

As for the company, I also loose interest in their product too. Likewise for those selling text links for the pure purpose of search engine rankings. 

Dave</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with your standing on this. </p>
<p>However, in this day and age of skim over reading e.t.c., I wonder how many people will actually pick up on &#8220;this post is sponsored&#8221;. And if they do, will it click with them that it might just be biased. Or will they think their favorite blogger travel blogger deserves the quick $. </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been approached to write sponsored posts for companies and products related to the travel industry. I&#8217;ve turned them down in polite reply by saying I could not write a sponsored post without a) using the product service, and b) being able to write about it  without any conditions (aka bias). </p>
<p>The latter usually stops any replies. That makes me happy. What makes me unhappy is that I&#8217;ve seen some of the sponsored posts out there. And, although I do feel for the $ stuck writer / blog, they do loose credibility in my eyes if they do not disclose this.</p>
<p>Moreover, if the style of writing is that of a copywriter from said company, or it&#8217;s blatant that they&#8217;ve never used the service / product. </p>
<p>As for the company, I also loose interest in their product too. Likewise for those selling text links for the pure purpose of search engine rankings. </p>
<p>Dave</p>
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